Brett Ethridge (00:01)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Faithful Fatherhood podcast. I am Brett Etheridge, co-host of the podcast, joined as always by Perry Hughes. Perry, how are you today?
Perry (00:10)
Fantastic, brother.
Brett Ethridge (00:12)
Good, good to have you. And joined by a special guest, my friend and colleague, Jamie Davis. Jamie, welcome to the show.
Jamie Davis (00:20)
Thank for having me.
Brett Ethridge (00:21)
Yeah, it's pleasure to have you. And in some respects, you're a little bit of a guinea pig. So this is our first ever episode where we're actually going live via video as well. So not just audio video. So some of you may be actually seeing us for the very first time on YouTube or wherever else we share this visually. So we had to, you know, put on our put on our pretty faces and our fancy clothes for this show today. But no, it's fun to be here for with all of you guys to talk about.
really an important topic and a new series that we are kicking off on the role of the father. And we're going to look at different aspects of the role of the father. Some of those roles probably pop to mind instantaneously, right? As fathers, we wear lots of different hats. But what we want to tackle today is this idea of father as provider. And I've invited Jamie on to talk about this for a lot of reasons.
One, he and I have just had a lot of conversations along these lines over the years. And I like a lot of what he thinks about father as provider. He also has five kids. so he, you know, that's probably his his most credible aspect when it comes to talking about being a provider, because he's had to provide for five kids. Perry provides for four kids. I provide for four kids. Right. And there's there's a certain level of.
of expectation that comes with that when you have a large family. Beyond that, Jamie is a very successful businessman. He has had a long career in software. He was the president and CEO of HCR Software, most recently vice president of salary of compensation management for salary.com and has just launched a new business as a franchise broker. He's the managing partner of legacy franchise solutions. So
A lot of that to say again, he's been successful in business, but I would just sort of kick off this question for you guys. And it's a loaded question. It's a weighted question. And we could go a lot of different directions with this, but where does this idea of our role being a provider come from? I mean, we're starting here, right? We're going to tackle several different.
aspects of our role as a father in the coming episodes, but we're starting with our role as provider and I think it's because When we think about what our role is, it's one of the first thing that comes to mind I talked to a lot of fathers and I've asked them this question preparing for this series Hey, what would you say is the role of a father and boom number one? It's almost always Provider is that biblically founded? What why is it assumed that the father is going to be the provider?
Jamie Davis (03:10)
My mind goes to Genesis. You mentioned it earlier as we prayed that God is our Father and He's our provider and we look to Him. And so as God put Adam and then Eve in the garden, He provided for them lavishly. It's really other than Creator, it's one of the first attributes of God that we see. And as we are supposed to emulate Him, He's the image, right, where the image bears, being providers is following His example.
Perry (03:41)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's... I love that idea of Adam and Eve in the garden and God setting that up and providing for them. And then it's also all throughout Scripture, you think about, you know, Matthew 6, 25, the verses that talk about not being anxious, and along that thing, don't be anxious about your clothes or what you're going to eat. The comparison is look at the birds of the field. You know, they don't store up their wealth in barns and, you know...
Brett Ethridge (03:41)
What do think, Derek?
Perry (04:10)
but their Heavenly Father provides for them. Look at the grass, you know, it's clothed, the Heavenly Father provides. And so there's, you know, I think if we were to just dive in, we would find multiple, multiple, you know, areas throughout the scripture that point to that theme of Father equals provider.
Brett Ethridge (04:32)
Yeah. I think, I think about the Israelites leaving, you know, leaving Egypt, heading to the promised land and complaining about not having food. And all of a sudden, boom, manna from heaven. mean, God literally says, okay, here's your, here's your food for the day. I will provide for you. So there's certainly scriptural basis. And I guess the understanding then is that as we look to our father, our heavenly father, as our provider, it then flows through us because we're playing, we're assuming that role then of earthly father to our children.
Perry (04:41)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (05:02)
Perry, like the verses that you brought up and I joked about it a little bit in the intro for you, Jamie. Do you guys feel stress around the idea being provider? I what's your journey been like, especially as your family's grown, right? You five kids. It was easier to provide for one, then it's a little harder to provide for two, and then you're providing for four and five in your cases, Jamie. Do you guys wrestle at all with the just the anxiety of like, I have to keep providing for my family?
Jamie Davis (05:29)
certainly have experienced some anxiety related to that. I think back to, I don't know, over a decade ago, we were in the middle of a large remodel for our home when I was laid off from my employer. And that was a very stressful time. And as a man, your identity is somewhat wrapped up in this idea of being the provider. And if you feel like you can't fulfill that in the way that that you want to or that
Really maybe society expects you to, it can bring on feelings of shame. And there's a verse that people like to quote in this context. First Timothy 5,8 talks about if anyone fails to provide for his family members that he's worse than an unbeliever and has denied the faith, right? As a standalone verse that can really clobber you, right? After getting a layoff notice. But if you put it back into context, right? Before that, after that, he's really talking about widows.
Brett Ethridge (06:14)
Yeah, it can.
Perry (06:14)
Yeah.
Jamie Davis (06:21)
And so he's talking about providing for widows. And I guess you can take it two ways. Number one, if there are widows that have relatives, the relatives ought to be helping out with the widows. That seems to be the most obvious proper interpretation of that. But you could also look at it and say, in our providing for the widows, let's not go to such an extreme that we fail to provide for our own family. Like don't give away the seed corn. And so that your future is ransomed. But I think that what Perry had to say about
the simplicity of what our actual needs are. I didn't need a bigger, more remodeled house. That doesn't fit within the requirement of providing for my family. Providing for your family can be very much simple. We can embrace the discipline of simplicity and have a life that is more easy to support financially.
That takes strategic thinking and it takes some sacrifice, but it also heavily reduces that sense of anxiety.
Perry (07:25)
Yeah, for sure. And I think too, along those lines is, I think there's an inverse relationship between our own dependence on the Heavenly Father as our provider and our own confidence and dependence in ourselves as the provider for our family. So yes, we go to work and yes, we earn and yes, we provide and yes, we give our kids love and a home to live in and food to eat, right?
We actually are doing the physical labor that results in a paycheck that results in paying the grocery bill and the power bill and the mortgage, you know, and whatever. Yes, that is our responsibility. And yet at the same time, we're supposed to be have this childlike faith that the father will provide for us. And so I think there's some kind of dynamic there.
And I don't really have it figured out yet, that's for sure, but there's some level of dynamic that the more, the bigger our faith is in our heavenly father, the lighter that burden of responsibility to be the provider for our family weighs on our shoulders, if that makes sense.
Brett Ethridge (08:42)
Yeah, I mean, yes, it definitely makes sense. it's, I think there's an abundance mindset there is what you're talking about, Perry, is recognizing that God's resources are more than enough. And if we really tap into that understanding when we sense lack in our own lives, when we perhaps don't see a paycheck that's large enough in the current moment to provide everything that we would want to provide for our family.
but to the extent that we recognize is that we're tapped into a much larger source and that God's desire is actually to lavish good gifts on us, to share the abundant resources of heaven with us, we can grow into that. so that's why I think where the faith comes from in not carrying the burden of anxiety around that because you recognize is the resources are there for me.
Jamie Davis (09:37)
I think about first Thessalonians 4, 11 and 12, where it says, making sure ambition to lead a quiet life, when the respective outsiders work hard with your hands and don't be dependent on anyone for anything. I'm paraphrasing a little bit there, but Thessalonica was a trading route town.
It was obviously under Roman occupation. There was some persecution. And so Paul's advice was very interesting. When you think about it, he was saying, don't be involved in commerce. Work with your hands is very specific advice. He's talking about the means of production, grow stuff, make stuff, fix stuff, right? And so he's essentially, and you've probably never heard a sermon on this, but at the end of that passage, it says, don't be dependent on anyone.
for anything. So there's an interesting tension there on how they childlike faith and belief in the Lord as your provider, but also a bit of a countercultural approach to, you know, grow some of your own food.
Don't be completely dependent in their case on suppliers that might hate you. And once you're gone, was persecution was pretty heavy at that time. You don't wanna be dependent on people who hate you and prefer to starve you than to sell to you, right? We've experienced some of this in our own country over the last four years as political tides have risen and fallen. But when we embrace a little bit going back to where we started, right? The garden, when we're growing our own food.
when we're buying in bulk and we've got food insurance, when we've got the ability to withstand supply shocks, right? I we all have life insurance and health insurance. We don't think that's weird or lack of faith. And so I think that this lesson from Paul to the persecuted church certainly has relevance today and it also can affect a lower level of anxiety.
Brett Ethridge (11:31)
Yeah. So you're suggesting that part of being a provider is, just having the wisdom to think about the future, even as you're providing in the present.
Jamie Davis (11:44)
There's quite a few times in Proverbs where it says, prudent see danger and take refuge and the foolish keep going and suffer for it. It says it in Proverbs 22. It says it in Proverbs 27. What's interesting about the context of Proverbs 27 is he goes on a little bit and he says the unspeakable. He basically says kingdoms and currencies fail. It happens.
If you go back into economic history, about every 80 years, the world reserve currency has shifted. When it did, that was a really tough adjustment for the people living in the country that had been used to being the world reserve currency. There's been events like hyperinflation that we've all heard about with taking wheelbarrows full of cash to buy a loaf of bread in the Weimar Republic. Lots of countries throughout history have experienced this, but Solomon's advice was to have goats. So we're right back to have some means of production.
If you read Proverbs 27, 23 through 24, it basically says, the condition of your flocks. Don't be so separated from, and this is right, the king talking to his son. Don't be so separated from the means of production that if your kingdom fails or your currency fails, you can't relocate with a herd of goats by another field and start over, right? He's really talking about a plan B or insurance, if you will. Stuff happens.
Brett Ethridge (13:03)
It does. It's an interesting thing to think through, right? Because I feel like I've vacillated on my thinking along these lines over the years. And by the way, just another quick proverb that supports what you're talking about. Proverbs 21.20 says, the wise store of choice food and olive oil, but the fool gulps theirs down. So this idea of not necessarily consuming everything that you have in the here and now. And yet,
I talked about manna from heaven earlier. And if you read those passages in Exodus, God very specifically, told the people only consume what you need for today. And those who tried to hoard a little bit, those who tried to store up a little bit, those who tried to save a little bit for tomorrow, they woke up the next day to find that the man had been eaten by maggots and was rotten and things like that. Yeah, exactly. Pile of maggots.
Perry (13:57)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jamie Davis (13:57)
Pile of maggots, yum.
Brett Ethridge (14:01)
And I'm actually, so it's so funny how I think our view sometimes of how we view the world sticks with us from things that we heard when we were young, right? And we adopt certain beliefs as true. And then it's on us to fully vet those thoughts. Is that belief founded in truth? And what do I really think about that? And I'm referring specifically to a youth group that I attended and it was a very formative youth group. mean,
In fact, I'm still very, very close with the youth pastor from that time. But he talked about how, how did he put it? Basically, he sort of felt guilty if he had a lot of extra money in his bank account because that money could be used for helping others. He was very much of the mindset of, I'm going to meet my family's needs and then I'm going to serve others and give to others and bless others. And what's this money doing sitting in my bank account?
when there are starving people down the street and those types of things. And he's always poured into ministries and brought people into his home and been very giving and generous with his money. And he basically was saying, I'm not too worried about my 401k when I'm 65 and a half. So was like, am I supposed to literally give away everything I have all the time? Is it wrong to save for when I'm 65 and a half? And so I've really wrestled with that. And so.
part of what you're talking about Jamie is being a little bit prudent, having the means. And maybe it's not contradictory thoughts, right? You're saying let's have means of production. Let's grow some of our own food and stuff like that. But what do you guys think? Do we have a responsibility to provide for the future?
Perry (15:46)
Yeah, I think we do have a responsibility to provide, I think it needs to be within balance and within reason, you know, just like anything you can get too extreme about it. And I think just like anything, preparedness and provision can, can become a certain level of idolatry towards yourself, you know, like, I'm the answer for all my family's problems, present, you know, future and imagined.
And I think we can easily go down a mental, at least for me, I can go down a mental rabbit hole of the what if this happens in the world and what if this happens in our country and I'm going to be prepared for this and that. And I think the Lord, you know, does want us to be responsible and good stewards and generous all at the same time. And I think the Lord's got a pretty big sense of humor too. I'll tell you a funny story on myself.
Jamie Davis (16:32)
Yeah.
Perry (16:38)
you know, I went pretty far down the prepper rabbit hole for a lot of years and we literally had cases and cases and cases of toilet paper that we have moved from house to house to house because I'm like, man, I've got to be ready. You know, if something happens, bro, we're gonna, we're gonna have seeds and toilet paper and garden and know, chickens and right, all the stuff, right. Bullets and band-aids and everything. So toilet paper was one of these things that
I'm like, bro, this is a commodity right here. We need this. So I literally had cases of it from like Costco, that we had moved from house to house when we built and all this other stuff. in our most recent move from a temporary living space that we were, you know, was a relative's home, second home that we were living in for time while we built our house, the day that we moved, we were doing trailers and box trucks and rentals and all this stuff.
and I put all the toilet paper on an open trailer and started driving down the road. And out of nowhere, this little summertime thunderstorm just blew in faster than I could get off the road or anywhere. And I found an old abandoned gas station and I pulled in there and got under the awning for the gas station. But the thunderstorm and the wind was so bad, it was blowing sideways. Well guess what? All that toilet paper ruined.
Brett Ethridge (18:05)
gone
ruined.
Perry (18:06)
Yeah, I mean like
we spent how many years like moving it from garage to garage to attic to whatever and the Lord was just laughing at me, you know, and I'm like, this is so funny. You know, I thought I was Mr. Prepared and one little thunderstorm ruined all my toilet paper provisions. So anyway, there's a, all that's a funny story to say is it's a balance, you know, like we need to not put ourselves in a place of being an idol for ourselves and our unpreparedness being an idol. We need to lean into the Holy Spirit.
Jamie Davis (18:15)
and
Perry (18:35)
trust in God's leadership, and then be willing to laugh at ourselves sometimes when dumb things happen.
Brett Ethridge (18:42)
That's right. The best laid plans of mice and men, right?
Perry (18:45)
Yeah.
Jamie Davis (18:45)
Right. That's a great story. This does feel very
relevant, though, as we're talking here in March of 2025. There's been a basically a two year.
white collar recession, a job recession, right? The number of layoffs are just stacking and the people who were laid off six months ago, a lot of them haven't found work yet. And now we've got, you know, Trump and Doge looking at the federal government, adding a whole lot more white collar workers, you know, to the stacks of the unemployed. And that's a good example of the wisdom of Solomon. One of the other things he said, and this is in Ecclesiastes, he says,
Brett Ethridge (19:22)
Yes.
Jamie Davis (19:25)
So here you've got this idea of multiple streams of income, right? If your day job through no fault of your own gets eliminated, do you have a side hustle that can scale? Do you have a business opportunity that you can lean into and grow bigger so that your ability to be a provider for your family isn't interrupted by the whims of other people? White collar, pink slip. It's a new trend and it's certainly...
Brett Ethridge (19:26)
That's right.
Yes.
Jamie Davis (19:55)
gives us opportunity to trust God. It also gives us opportunity to foresee danger and take refuge, right? We've got the rise of AI, we've got the rise of automation. There's a lot of people that are beginning to think in this way in terms of diversifying their income streams and not being just dependent on a single income.
Brett Ethridge (20:14)
And that's the mindset of a father, the mindset of a provider, thinking about contingencies. And I think a big part of it though that I just wanted to piggyback on what you said, Perry, is being in tune with the Holy Spirit. I'm thinking about my manna example where during that season, God was very specific with his word that you're not to save up in store, but elsewhere in scripture, you think about Joseph, right?
Jamie Davis (20:19)
Mm-hmm.
Perry (20:32)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Ethridge (20:38)
Joseph was given a very clear word from God that know well through interpreting Pharaoh's dream that The king's dream that we are about to enter a season of famine It is time to store up it is time to save and so I think it could be both it just depends on what what God's doing and what what season of World economy are we in and how do we know that how could can I read the tea leaves? Can I do I need to be?
reading the Wall Street Journal every day. Do I need to be obsessed with what Elon Musk is doing? Or do I need to be in tune with the Holy Spirit? What's right for my family? if God tells me don't store up toilet paper, OK, I'm not going to store up toilet paper. And if I do, he might take it from me anyway in a summer squall. So so there's a there's an element of that. But but let's let's go back and talk, though, about about just the mindset of a father as as provider. And so
Perry (21:22)
That's right.
Brett Ethridge (21:37)
Jamie, even thinking about, you talked about being laid off and you've got kids and you've got a wife and how am going to pay the bills? What did you do in that moment? What's your mindset as a father, as a provider, when something like that happens?
Jamie Davis (21:54)
took a long walk in the woods with a pocket Bible in my pocket and spent a lot of time talking to the Lord. And he reminded me of Romans 8 where it says, there's therefore now no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus. And it's funny, I laid down on a marshy bed of reeds along the side of the coast, north of Jacksonville around Fernandina. And I'm about maybe six feet from the water and I'm laying there and I'm talking to the Lord, my eyes are closed. And I'm like, Lord.
Show me that you know where I'm at and that you've got this. And at that very moment, I hear the sound.
have waves hitting the shore this far in and then a little time went by and it did it again. I'm like, that was not a wave. And I sit up and the dolphin has swam up to the bank, right where I'm sleeping and talking to the Lord. And it's you know, expressing sounds. And just the Lord showed me that he knows exactly where I'm at. And one of the things we're to provide for our family is that sense of being the protector, right? The leader that's not shaken.
by circumstances, but that has faith in God as provider. so the first thing I had to do is get my emotional reset that he is in fact still the provider and that I do in fact trust him. And that had to be done before I went and bought a bunch of toilet paper, panic buying of one thing or another, right? Cause that totally would have been right there in the instinct. Now you think about dads are, we've got our Swiss army knives, right? We're prepared for anything, but.
Perry (23:12)
Yeah
Jamie Davis (23:24)
You know, God says, really? Anything? That's enthroned in heaven laughs. Yeah, he certainly gives us opportunities to trust in him.
Brett Ethridge (23:27)
You
Yeah, and I love that answer because I think there's something in us as well that wants to fix things and do things and, uh-oh, I need to side hustle now or I need to go take another job real fast, even if it's not the job that God ultimately has for us. I need, whatever it is. And I've been in those situations as well where
the money's a little bit tighter and it's like, I'm going to sign up for random freelance work and I'm going to take any old job that I can because I feel the need to be the solution to bring money into the house. And yes, we need some more money coming into the house. But step one is, whoa, step back. Like, is this from you, Lord? Is this the right way to make the money come into the house? And so, yeah, just resetting, realigning with God as provider, being reminded that
that he's got us, he sees the future even before we do and making sure that we're taking the next right step fully in line with his will. You've done some of that too Perry, right? Over the years, just needing to take extra jobs and add things to what you're doing to make ends meet.
Perry (24:44)
yeah, of course. Absolutely. And I think, I mean, I'm currently doing it right now. So we built our gymnastics business into something that we don't have to be present for every day anymore in the day to day. And since Helene hit, I have purchased a skid steer and a dump trailer and I'm going around and you know, started a storm cleanup business. so
couple chainsaws and a dump trailer and a skid steer with a grapple on it and I'm cleaning up property for people and it's a great side hustle and when I first started it I thought man I'm gonna go gangbusters on this thing I'm gonna do it five days a week I'm gonna be you know I'm gonna put 20 grand in the bank every month and I'm just gonna crush it you know and I did a couple of five day a week jobs and thought I don't think I want to do this five days a week I miss that you know
really hard earned time with my family, with my kids. You know, if I wake up in the morning and leave early and I'm not back until after dark, they're in our gymnastics business working. I don't see them until right before bedtime. so I just realized that, and maybe that's the prompting of the Holy Spirit, or maybe it was just my gut or my intuition or my realization that I don't want to do this thing gangbusters. I want to do it just a little bit, you know? And if we...
have some expenditure that we want to buy as a family, get us a camper or something like that, then cool, I can really turn up the volume on that side hustle and work four or five days a week for a couple weeks and make a few grand and go buy something. Or I can just kind of go a medium pace, work at it one or two days a week and put a little bit of money in the bank and.
That's kind of how I've been going at it last few weeks and it's been working really well for me. I try to get that skid steer tree cleanup work done on a Monday or a Tuesday. And then that gives me kind of the rest of the week to focus in on family things and circle back and do, you know, do the other stuff I need to do, or even take a little free time for myself and go for a motorcycle ride or something like that. If the weather's nice then, but it's been good for me to have that side hustle. Nancy and I have tried a bunch of side hustles over the years.
And this one feels so far like the most fruitful and the most successful one. So that's kind of a fun feeling because we've had a bunch of failures. A bunch.
Brett Ethridge (27:14)
Yeah.
But, yeah.
Jamie Davis (27:17)
really cool. It strikes
me that that's actually sort of a modern day version of the means of production, right? Having that heavy equipment that can do things that a single person with a chainsaw couldn't do. You're not going to get a wheelbarrow into some of those areas right now.
Perry (27:31)
Yeah, that's
right. Yeah. For sure.
Brett Ethridge (27:35)
But again, it's a mindset of, you talk about multiple failures, but I'm going to keep trying this because it's my role. It's my, you know, I need to, I need to provide, I need to figure something out in tune with the Holy Spirit, but some things work, some things don't, and you just keep working at it until something lands. So I think that's cool that you have that. We've talked a lot about money so far in this episode, but I think our role as provider goes beyond just providing.
financial resources for our family, right? I'm sure we could talk a lot more about this side of things, but what are some non-financial, non-material things that you guys view as your role to provide to your kids and to your family?
Jamie Davis (28:24)
We started this with our father is our example. And so in a lot of ways, our kids are looking at us and they're gonna produce a lot of what they see even if they don't mean to. I think we can all think back to our own earthly fathers and figure out that we picked up some traits. Maybe we didn't care for those traits and yet we looked down at times and go, wait a minute, where'd that come from? I chose not to be that way and yet I am, right? And so.
Brett Ethridge (28:40)
Yes.
Jamie Davis (28:50)
We love our dads, we respect them, we appreciate them, but you we're all human and have our failings. from an intentionality standpoint, being vulnerable about where our own failures are and making it clear to our kids that we're sinners in need of grace. I think being vulnerable about wanting the Lord's Lordship in each and every area of our life and confessing our sins one to another when we...
Brett Ethridge (28:55)
That's right.
Jamie Davis (29:15)
Get convicted that you know what I just demonstrated was not a good example and I apologize. So I think vulnerability and honesty and a desire for the Lord to have more Lordship and more areas of my life. I think that's a real important thing to provide for our kids.
Perry (29:31)
Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a great word and I would, I would encourage and challenge it in this way. So I agree with you a hundred percent, but my challenging encouragement to you is to take the word vulnerable out of your vocabulary and replace it with transparency. And I've been reading a book, lately, by a man named, Mr. Jason Wilson, and he's an incredible guy. look him up. He's super cool. He's,
He's a martial artist and he trains inner city kids and you know, the complete wholeness and fullness, you know, but he uses martial arts as his platform to do that. anyway, fantastic man. And he was, he is written a few books and I heard him say an interview that he realized that the word vulnerable is not really what we want to be as men because that what that means is, know, you're weak and
susceptible to an attack, know, you're, you know, I think of a dog with their belly up kind of situation and that's not what we want to be as men, what we want to be is transparent. So transparent, I think is what I'm trying to, and I used to say the word vulnerable all the time until I heard this and I'm like, oh, yeah, that may, you know, I don't want to be vulnerable as the man, no, but I do want to be transparent. And so I have just really in the last few weeks kind of adopted
Jamie Davis (30:36)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's a point.
Yeah.
Perry (30:57)
commitment to changing my language and changing my thinking in that way. So I just wanted to pass that along to you and pass it along to our listeners. But I do think being transparent is a very important part of provision towards our kids. And a lot of that for me comes from stories of dumb stuff that I did when I was a kid. And I'm transparent, you know, at an appropriate level with my kids. And I'm like, Hey guys, don't, you know, don't do this. Let's learn from your dad's, you know, mistakes. But,
But yeah, think transparency is great. But two things that come to my mind, and we can kind of unpack them separately if y'all want to, but one is just love. We want to be providers of love and acceptance for our kids. And I think about our Heavenly Father, how He lavishes us with love. And it's easy to go straight to the monetary, you know, as men. But we want to be providers of love and affection and tenderness and acceptance for our kids, I think, is a big thing.
And then I was thinking about this today too, as I was mindfully preparing for the show. We want to provide the freedom of failure, you the freedom to fail for our kids. We want to provide just that, I guess it's grace, you know, or wisdom. But I think too many of us as dads want to fix things for our kids right away. We want to problem solve for our kids right away.
And I don't think that's the best approach. I think the best approach is to actually let our kids fail, just fall on their face, screw it up, fail. Of course, within reason, right? Like I don't want them to die over it, but yeah, we got to provide a tone of acceptance and a tone of wisdom and a tone of understanding. And we have to have some self-restraint to provide that space for our kids to fail.
Jamie Davis (32:54)
word.
Brett Ethridge (32:55)
You are. I think about and Jamie, you use this word earlier protector. It's another aspect of the role of the father that will tackle in a future episode. Clearly our role is to be a protector, but I think what you're talking about Perry is protecting our kids, providing a safe environment for them to fail right almost like not.
a cocoon is not quite the right word, right? We want them exposed to things, but we need them to fail in a safe environment so that they're able and willing to take risk in the outside world once we launch them. And I think, I think that's a big aspect of our role as providers is to provide them with opportunities and a home environment where
they can figure a lot of that stuff out so that they're ready at age 18 to leave the nest, to use a trope. But it's true. mean, that's absolutely one of our roles as providers, to provide them that environment where they have the safety, they have the security, they have the consistency, they have the love to feel very confident in who they grow into when they leave the nest.
Perry (34:12)
Yeah, and a specific example, something that we're doing with our oldest son, he's 17. We homeschool, a lot of the listeners will know that, but we have provided him an opportunity for his math education this year that is a stock trading education. And so he, for the past, you know, however many months has been studying lessons. He's been learning through video.
how to engage in the stock market. And we're providing him that opportunity. And he is actually practicing trades with paper fake money accounts. And he's watching the market and he's learning. he's sending me pictures of like, hey dad, look at this chart, check it out. Look at this. And he's showing me this stuff and he's learning. But it is that kind of cushioned environment where, okay, he's not a 25 year old that's saved up 10.
grand or 20 grand or whatever and he just throws it all in some guess, some gamble because his buddy was like, so and so is going up, you know? It's like, hey, this is a controlled environment. You're going to learn what it looks like to read a chart. You're going to learn how to see the patterns and then you're going to start with pretend money and you're going to practice and you're going to fail. You're going to mess it up, but you're going to learn from those mistakes.
Brett Ethridge (35:16)
Yeah.
I think about the famous Chinese, I think it's a Chinese proverb that we've all heard that if you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime. And I view that as my role as providers to provide that mindset. I don't want to just give to my kids, right? And we can circle back to this conversation. What's ours to give them, right? Food on the table, shelter for sure, shoes for school, some clothes on their back.
Perry (35:50)
Yeah.
Brett Ethridge (36:05)
take them on vacation if we can and all of a sudden now we're pretty much everything beyond that, right? We're starting to move into it'd be nice to be able to give them but is it do I have to absolutely give it to them? But I think what a lot of people do is they just they just give, give, give, give, give. If you need a fish, I'll give you a fish. You need another fish, I'll give you a fish. Hey dad, could I have 20 bucks? Because I'm going out with my friend. Here's 20 bucks. Hey dad, I need 20 bucks. Hey, sit down at this computer.
Let's look at a stock chart. Let's place a trade, earn 20 bucks so you have it to go out with your kids. And so at what point does that become our mindset is teaching them how to create some of the resources for themselves so that they don't end up in the big wide world wondering what in the heck do I do now? And so that's an element of it as well.
Jamie Davis (36:36)
Thank
of other things we can provide for our kids is connections, right? So I can't teach my son everything, right? But I might have a friend that has a horse and he can go over there and muck some stalls and get some mentoring, right? My son is now working with my daughter's boyfriend. I've got a 16 year old daughter and her boyfriend just started a window cleaning business since my son's out there. He's 12 years old. He's out there learning to the
Brett Ethridge (37:05)
There you go.
Perry (37:06)
Yeah.
Jamie Davis (37:21)
ups and downs of the window cleaning business, but helping our kids connect with other people that can mentor them and show them skills, give them real life experiences to help them to grow their confidence. Because just as a child, you're you have an innate respect for your parents, but their words.
After a while, they begin to sound like Charlie Brown's teacher. Right. But if they hear the same things from other people, sometimes it can help reinforce it. Right. It's the three legged stool. None of us would trust our weight to a one legged stool. Right. So we can provide our kids with exposure to other parents and adults that share our values and they can give them rich life experiences.
Perry (38:04)
Yeah, absolutely. love that. What do you guys think about, to circle back to what you were saying, Brett, and kind of connect those two things. You said your 12-year-old is out there learning the window washing business. That's pretty cool. What do you guys think is a good age to start the mindset of, I'm going to give my kid this fish versus I'm going to teach him how to fish? I mean, is that?
you know, 18 months old, boy, go get your own freaking food, you know, or like, what, like, where do we, where do we start thinking about that transition? Is there an age or is it like the kid's maturity? I mean, what are y'all, what are y'all thoughts on that?
Jamie Davis (38:34)
You
Brett Ethridge (38:35)
you
Jamie Davis (38:37)
you
Brett Ethridge (38:43)
Well, you I can see you're ready to say something, Jamie, but I'll actually jump in there, Perry, and you joked about it. But I think at an early age, so I'm seeing it in my own in my own family dynamics. Right. And I can't remember if I've shared this story on an earlier episode, but it's just so vividly night and day. Right. Listeners will know that my two older boys are adopted and.
in large part because during the first three and five years of their lives, respectively, they were doted on and given absolutely everything and given fish and given fish and spoiled. And you think, well, but by age five, how much responsibility should they really have? You know, that type of thing. Of course, we're going to give our three, four, five year olds everything, but that's what was done to them. Right. And so now they're living under our roof. And I kid you not, by the time they're like seven, eight,
nine. It's like, Dad, can you get me a bowl from the cabinet? You know, and it's just like I go over and I'm getting them a bowl from the cabinet because they can't reach it. So I have my first biological son Declan and he's like two years old and he decides he wants a bowl. He runs across the house, drags a stool across the house, is climbing up on the counters to get his own bowl.
And I'm like by age two and three, he's sort of already figuring out how to meet his own needs. And the two older were expecting me to meet their needs. And so I don't think it's too early at age three to say, why don't you figure out how to get your own bowl? You're old enough, you know, or like, go get your own milk. You want a glass of milk? Go get some milk, you know, that type of thing. So I think there's an element of that that starts early.
is providing them opportunities to go back to what you guys were talking about as well, to start to figure out some of that stuff for themselves. we have our kids from an early age doing their own laundry. People look at me crazy, but I remember my former pastor's wife, I was at a serve day with them. And she's like, I I did my kids a disservice. She had an 18 year old at the time, like he's out on his own and he's never done his own laundry. know, she's like,
Perry (40:46)
Yeah.
Jamie Davis (40:51)
Thanks.
Perry (41:02)
Ha
Brett Ethridge (41:03)
I've done too much for him.
I didn't reassure her that she had done too much for him, but I was like, yeah, I mean, at some point have them start to do some of that stuff for themselves.
Perry (41:14)
Yeah, there are definitely a few weekends that I came home from college. Hopefully mom's not listening to this one, but just so mom would do my laundry. know, like.
Brett Ethridge (41:20)
Yeah.
It's a mindset shift. It's just a mindset shift of at some point empower them to do some of that stuff on their own. In terms of making their own money, don't necessarily have the, mean, we have a 15 year old now and it's time for him, he'll have his first real summer job to start to learn some of that stuff. We're doing a little bit of training him on some stock trading and stuff like that, which actually he's already doing as part of his homeschool curriculum, which I think is really cool that it's baked into the curriculum.
curriculum we happened to have there to start to understand investing and so forth. yeah, I think.
Jamie Davis (42:02)
We've all got the benefit of having multiple kids and you learn some of these lessons, right? By kid three, by kid four, you're like, man, if I had that to do over again, I would lean in the other direction, right? I would err on the side of figure it out instead of, let me get that for you. But yeah, for the parents that are out there, they only have one or two, know, one of the beautiful things about being a human is you don't have to make every mistake yourself. You can learn from mine.
Brett Ethridge (42:06)
Yeah.
That's right. That's right.
Perry (42:14)
Yeah, yeah.
That's right.
Brett Ethridge (42:28)
But think about some other things to provide, some tangentially related to finances and material aspects. I think one of the things that we need to provide and teach are just our kingdom principles around money. And you guys have obviously touched on that as well, but understanding the dynamics of sowing and reaping, but also giving.
having a generous heart, you from an early age, we have taught our kids that every time a dollar comes in, whether you're getting it in your birthday card or whatever, 10 % goes to giving, 10 % goes to saving. so recognizing that giving is a big portion of what we do with our money because it sows into the kingdom, but rewards come back as well from that, those types of kingdom mindsets of tithing and so forth. And so I think that's our responsibility as fathers as well as to provide.
Education around that just how does how does the kingdom work when it comes to money?
Yeah. What else? have we missed? Any sort of parting thoughts as we wrap up this conversation on provision? Do you have, and maybe here's a question for you guys. Any thoughts for?
for men who may feel guilty around feeling like they're not providing enough. And we've touched on it a little bit, but I think it bears a little bit more conversation. And maybe men listening to this whose wives are the main breadwinner. Do we have a problem with that? mean, is there a responsibility that we have to make the most money that our kids need, you know, our wives need to stay home with the children while we go to work?
Bring home the bacon, you know? So what are your thoughts on that for men who might be in very different situations than the three of us talking on this podcast?
Jamie Davis (44:26)
back to Romans 8 one right there's no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus and you know different marriages look different and different career paths look different but I think that you only get one chance at the decade of dad there's no do-overs right before the age of five baby really wants its mama after 15 those kids want their friends
From five to 15, it's prime time. This is your opportunity to be present in the life of your child. if not working has got you depressed, then you're not emotionally present. If working too much has got you not time-wise available enough, as Perry was pulling back on something so he could give more time to his family. know, it's just, these are really important decisions. You don't get any do-overs and some kids end up with a sense of abandonment because dad was working so hard to be the
provider from keeping up with the Joneses perspective that he wasn't present in the life of the kid. And so I think it's important to put yourself in that lens. Think about what are they seeing in you and what time are they getting with you? And are you able to make the deposits that you really want to during the season where really only you can do it? You're gonna have lots of other decades for earning, but this is your decade of death.
Brett Ethridge (45:52)
Barry, you've said that often that you and Nancy talk about that a lot, right?
Perry (45:56)
Yeah, that we can always build our wealth, our financial wealth later, as long as we're getting by right now and making good financial decisions and we're not going backwards, we're not going under. That we can always earn more later once the kids are grown and out of the house. So we kind of err on the side of less in terms of building financial wealth and more in terms of leaning into our...
quality time together as a family. You we travel a lot. We do fun trips and adventures and stuff with the kids. We take three months off in the summer most years. And sometimes that's as simple as going down to the, you know, to my in-laws place at the coast that they're gracious and they provide, you know, for us. you know, but if I was really, if I let my ego get in the way and I was like, man, we can't go stay at my, my father-in-law's place. You know, I need to get my own beach house.
Well, then I would have to go work a lot more. When would we ever get to go use it? So, um, but yeah, so like, I mean, for me, not everybody's like, like, like you said, Jamie, not every marriage looks the same. And for Nancy and I, we both have kind of come at this as like a 50 50, you know, we both parent the kids, we both homeschool the kids, we both pursue our, you know, business ventures together. And that has worked out well for us.
But if you're a dad who's mostly stay at home and your bride is out there earning money, maybe she's got a degree that enables her to earn twice as much as you. And you just look at it from a dollar and cents perspective, you could go make X an hour and she can go make X squared an hour, then that's kind of a no brainer. So yeah, I do think there's no condemnation. But if you're a man who's feeling guilty,
Lay that guilt down and at the same time use it as a mirror to look in the mirror and go, well, am I really living to my full potential either as financial provider or as relationship provider and father figure to my kids? You know, don't let your, don't beat yourself up. Don't let the enemy, you know, stomp on your throat with guilt. But at the same time, if you're feeling that way, take a, take a,
take a hard look in the mirror and say, what can I change? The good news is, the bad news is you might be the problem. The good news is you're also the solution. So, lean into that.
Jamie Davis (48:30)
One other thing we can provide just came to mind and I hope this doesn't sound self-serving, but I've had some success in life and chose this current role truly in order to give back. But one of the things we can give our children is opportunity. No matter how good you are at your job, chances are very, very low that you can hand them your job. Most corporations have got an anti-nepotism policy. That means you can't hire relatives. But if you've started a side business with junk hauling or...
know, skid steer, you you can absolutely hand the keys to your child and train them how to run the business and help them, you know, shoehorn them into a meaningful career. And the scripture says, train up a child in the way they should go. And I think that's where the emphasis belongs there, right? And we know our kids better than everyone. Why should we outsource their career placement to a four-year institution that doesn't share a worldview? You know, when you're an employee somewhere, you're forced to endure the culture.
Some cultures are good, some cultures are bad, but you don't have a choice on the matter. If you're an employee, as a business owner, you get to set the culture. And so you can bring your family values into your family business and your kids to keys and know that they're not being swept away by the winds of doctrine and worldliness that are out there.
Brett Ethridge (49:47)
Yeah, that's the legacy piece. Perry and I had done a series somewhat recently on legacy and we talked a lot about that. And one of the things we talked about is legacy doesn't just mean I've saved up a ton of money and get to leave them a million dollars in my will, although they might appreciate that. But what they, think, will carry with them more than any sort of dollars to leave behind are the lessons learned, the love, Perry, you were talking about. And yeah, absolutely.
leaving behind a business or something like that, that they can step into the opportunity. That's a huge part of the legacy so they can continue on that aspect of things. I love that. And one final thing to sort of piggyback on that as we wrap up this conversation, thinking about what I think is one of the most impactful thing that my own father provided me. He provided us a great life. He made a lot of money. So we had nice vacations and clothes and those types of things. But again, I don't really...
None of that stuff was as important as the feeling I had growing up in a safe, stable, loving home, right? That's the number one thing that I think they provided me that gave me a sense of security and confidence and belief in myself. And I think when I look back on what my father provided me, it was that he really instilled in me a belief that I have value.
And that I'm capable and then I'm capable of anything. He always told me you can do anything, anything you set your mind to and you're willing to work for. And I believed it. Right. And if he had told me the opposite, I probably would have believed that as well. But he didn't. He instilled in me the sense that if there are problems, you can overcome them, that you're smart, that you're and I wasn't necessarily any smarter than anybody else, but I believed I was because he told me I was right. And that type of a thing. Right. And so I think, I think that's a
Jamie Davis (51:21)
Mm.
Brett Ethridge (51:37)
big part of what we can provide our kids because they'll step into that they'll put on that cloak that mantle and that's a big part of the legacy piece as well that they'll carry forward.
I in closing, guess, unless you guys anything else.
Perry (51:56)
No, that's great.
Brett Ethridge (51:57)
Okay, I wanna go back to the sort of the abundance mindset and the abundance kingdom and the resources that we have the ability to tap into. There's this interesting book that I've just picked back up recently. It's called Provision. I'll post it in the show notes. And it's a series of prophecies, prayers, and declarations over this idea of provision and not just financial provision. There are chapters on provision for, oh, don't know, health, lots of different things. But there is a...
Chapter on provision around wealth creation and abundance and there's just a little paragraph I want to read really quickly as we close and it says for some of you It is time to come out of poverty. It is time to come out of survival mode It is time to come out of disparity It's time to come into an overcomer mindset for others who already have a measure of wealth and resource Just like in the parable of the talents the good master or God and provider always multiplies What is multiplied he is going to bring you a greater measure?
He will give you the talents of those who buried them in the ground. He is calling you into breakthrough provision. So for those that that message lands and resonates with, that's my prayer for you, that his resources are there for you. I pray that he showers you with his abundant blessing so you can step more fully into the role of provider. So, gentlemen, I've enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for.
Thanks for being here, Jamie, for being our first guest on video. So this has been a lot of fun. been good to see you guys. Hopefully you, the listener, have been blessed by this conversation. As always, if we've missed the mark anywhere, if you have thoughts, questions, let us know. Reach out to us on social media, by email. All of our contact information is in the show notes below. Any of the resources we have talked about, books, Perry mentioned an author and some books, contact information for Jamie, that'll all be in the show notes.
as well. with that, I will leave you to get to it. Have a great rest of your week, everyone, and be blessed. We'll see you on the next episode of the Faithful Fatherhood podcast. Take care.
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